If Pinocchio said, “My nose will grow.” What would his nose do?
I believe strongly that water isn’t wet, due to it being wet..
@Henry, the association with drugs and wild living certainly doesn’t help. But all music is fallen, being created by fallen man. I think it’s a 1 Corinthians 8 type issue, if your conscious allows be free, if not don’t listen to those styles.
Use your discernment and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit is the advice I'll give anyone who is on the fence about this 😉
Will, yes, interesting indeed! That that didn't change my mind, tho, bc I guess other factors and the whole outlook I have on things that are going on in this present age make it so that I am not able to listen to that stuff with a clear conscience.
A thought that came to mind is the association of RRR and drugs that might be a factor of why it sound unholy
Interesting read! I have to take music appreciation for a GE requirement, and it’s been interesting
Thoughts? I know it’s a lot 😬
I would also argue that CCM (contemporary Christian music) is very different from the world for 3 reasons, 1. The world hates CCM, and this includes CCM that includes RRR (which is not most CCM). The world associates CCM with music that sounds bad and is very unpopular in the world. 2. The Gospel always brings hate from the world, even the mere mention of Jesus’ name is hateful in the eyes of the world. 3. A Christian musician will use Christian record labels (as opposed to a secular record label which would not allow overt religious references in the music) which ensures the music will never reach popular success in the world. As a result of these three reasons, CCM is very unpopular in the world.
(the major and minor scales as well as stacks of thirds to create harmony (triads) evolved from the Catholic Church, they were used in English plain chants and popularized by the Catholic composer Palestrina and others before him. In other words, any genre using major and minor scales (which includes all Western genres of music) are direct descendants of Catholic music
If you really want music that sounds counter-cultural, try listening to atonal music like Arnold Schoenberg’s 6 pieces for piano, or anything by Anton Webern. That’s music that’s really unpopular and nothing like the world at all.
In otherwise, you taste of what sounds holy is actually a very recent development in the history of music, and only a fraction of what has been sung to our God since Adam.
5. Finally, I think it is worth noting that the hymns of today would have been scandalous in churches pre-1490s. Music theorists before that time has been furiously divided over whether to use a 7 in a basic V7 chord which is the building block of all music (including hymns) to this day. It even took a long time for the 12-notes we call the chromatic scale exist, some cultures have even more tones than are traditional 12
4. It is also worth noting that music in the time of Jesus would have sounded nothing like the hymns we have today. This is because the major and minor scales and chords did not even exist until centuries after His death. If study traditional Jewish music, around the time of David and after, records indicate the music was quite gregarious (read 2 Samuel 6:12-23 for David’s dancing)
Reggae originated in Jamaica, and has some origins in the Blues (another African-Americans folk genre).
Rap is basically poetry spoken in monotone often with a rhythmic and/or musical background - the origins are probably from African chants, though similar things exist in every culture.
Rock is a direct descendant of Jazz which is subsequently a descendant of Blues, Ragtime, and African-American Spirituals. Ragtime is partially a descendant of European Classical Music and African tribal music, while the Spiritual are more direct descendant from African tribal music. African tribal music is the primary source of rhythm and drums we see in todays music.
3. The argument has also been made that RRR sounds unholy. I think they are perceived this way because of a failure to understand where they came from
Essentially, folk tunes were the equivalent to RRR today, and Protestants used these tunes to differentiate themselves from the antiquated sounding chants used in the Catholic Church.
2. Many hymns are based on folk tunes that would have been popular at the time they were written. Thus, hymns would have sounded similar to the popular music of the time. Nowadays, RRR is more popular which gives hymns a more antiquated sound that can be associated with sounding “holier” or different from our current world.
1. Contemporary Christian music is not based in rock music (at least most of the popular stuff isn’t), it is based in country music. That’s why some Contemporary Christian musicians started in Nashville, which is the cultural center for country music. The two genres also share nearly identical instrumentation, chord structures, and vocal style
I was reading your arguments about RRR, and since I’m a musician and have studied music history extensively I thought I’d offer a few extra thoughts.
(Btw, I'm able to leave this group even tho I'm admin, bc on a PC, you can go in and un-admin yourself so that you can leave. 😏 It's not possible to do it on a phone)
Due to the inactivity of this group, I'm probably gonna exit left stage 😂 Besides, I don't know if there will ever be another overflow debate, since the main debate group hardly has any debates on it anyway 😅 Any of you can feel free to leave if you'd like.
"Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved..." (Col. 3:1) Notice how it says DEARLY loved, and this is about God's chosen ppl.
This one especially explains it: "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him." (1 Jn. 3:1)
Here are some verses that show how God loves His children in a special way. "Because you are precious in my eyes, and honored, and I love you, I give men in return for you, peoples in exchange for your life." (Is. 43:4) “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his TREASURED possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." (Deut 7:6)
Do you have any verses to show that He loves people differently?
What about like with the Egyptians and Israelites? Would you say that God loved them both the same, since He was willing to give grace to both? But it was because the Israelites believed and obeyed Him that His relationship was different with them and He favored them? Or no?
Yeah, I’m with Roger and Vera on this one. Everyone is special and God has a special love for each I individual person. It’s not like He loves certain people MORE just…. different
... Roger, I was thinking the SAME thing about the cookie-cutter love 😂 And I agree with you
Well, just bc God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, doesn't necessarily mean that His love for each individual is the same exact kind of love. I mean, it's just not the way God is to just have this "cookie-cutter" love for every single person. Just like a parent loves all their children dearly, but they have a special/individual love for each one. I believe it's the same way with God and His children, too. His love for each person is unique.
I'm back. Szia, szia, szia!! Lol Yeah Roger, since we proved that God IS love itself we can go to the verse that says "I am the same yesterday today and forever". If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and God is love, then His love is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Why do you think He has a special kind of love?
I kinda agree with Vera. Of course, God loves everyone, saved or unsaved. But there's that special kind of love that He has for His children. Now, in terms of His love among individual believers, I think that the more one draws closer to the Lord and loves him more, they will feel His love to a greater degree. Maybe not that God loves them more if they love HIM more... that's probably not the case. But, I think they will definitely FEEL and experience His love more, as they draw closer to Him. That may explain why John was called (or referred to himself as) the disciple Jesus loved.
Ok, Alice, see ya, then! Bye! Szia, szia, szia! (As the Hungarians said, even tho it means 'hello, hello, hello' 😆.)
That is a pretty good guess, and it could be true, however, and my family and I had this whole discussion a few weeks ago, why was John called "the disciple Jesus loved"? (Interesting fact, John wrote a lot about love.) He was the one who laid his head on the bosom of Jesus.
I will be back in 10 days, after vacation
Same here, I can't wait to hear your opinions!
Originally I agreed with you Vera, but at the beginning we proved that God IS love. There is this verse, "He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever". And if God is love then His love is the same yesterday today and forever.
I think that God loves everyone the same but His relationship is different. It's like with parents, they have loved their kids since before they were born. I mean God created very single human. He loves ever single person. But He has this pride and deep relationship with those that come to Him and want to grow in Him.
This is a very interesting topic, and I am open to other opinions on this. 😊 As for verses to back up my theory, I'll probably delve more into that tomorrow, cause I need to go to sleep now 😴
I actually don't agree that God loves everyone exactly the same. I believe, though I could be wrong, that He has a special love for His children in general (of course, He still greatly loves sinners), and even for His children, each one is loved with a special love only for him.
(Although I do agree with you just saying lol)
And why would you say that?
God loves everyone the same.
So we have proven that God loves and is love. Okay so now to the question. Do you believe that God loves everyone to the same degree. Christians and non Christians? ( I will give my thoughts after)
Absolutely! "God is love." 1 Jn 4:16a 😄
So the biblical definition of love is, "Love is patient, love is kind, love does not envy or boast..." God demonstrates all of these characteristics. Since God is perfect, He demonstrates all of these characteristics perfectly. Meaning that God demonstrates love perfectly. Thus we could say that God is love. Do you agree?
Sure, Alice! 😁 Yes, God does demonstrate His love. "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) 😉
Can we agree that God demonstrates love?
Hey guys, I am working on gathering thoughts on a topic in order to write an essay. So I would like to start a small debate 😁
Hey 😂 It's normal for this group to be inactive for long periods of time, bc it's not everyday that we have an extra debate going on. 😅 Ya know? This is just a backup/overflow group.
Yes. We r forcing you to watch it 🗡
Hmm... is it a city ordinance or something? 🤣
Have u watched it yet Roger?
Oh, hi, BM. As Sethers was saying, it's really not super hard 😂
Yeah, it’s not super hard
Oh I just use the app on an android to cast to my tv or steam link to cast from my computer
Yah but it works if you have a tv. It works with Rome and fire stick too. Do you have anything hooked up to your tv?
Don’t you need appletv to airplay?
... you can airplay it onto a bigger screen like your tv. It’s insanely easy.
Yeah, though I find it more enjoyable on a bigger screen
I have the Chosen app and it’s really good, that’s the best way to go is to get the app
I love it so much😍it’s made the Bible come alive for me
It is. I LOVE how it shows Jesus as fully human, his having a sense of humor, and Him having empathy towards others. 👍
Hmm...sounds interesting! 😀
Its also free to watch on vidangel or youtube. 😃
@Vera interesting! 😂 @ Roger It’s based on the Gospels, but unlike all the other movie depictions, it’s a tv series and also shows Jesus’s human side.
The Chosen is really good!
😂 Interesting! Wikipedia gives a much better description than I could: "Ben-Hur is a story of a fictional hero named Judah Ben-Hur, a Jewish nobleman who was falsely accused and convicted of an attempted assassination of the Roman governor of Judaea and consequently enslaved by the Romans."
Hey I was going to ask if anyone watched The Chosen. 😄 What is Ben Hur about?
Me neither...I used to watch lots, but not these days. I haven't watched The Chosen, but I've heard it's good. And I have watched Ben Hur. That was interesting... we were watching it one day, when my dad told us we were going to get ice cream. (That was back in the day 😝) We were right on that part where the guard opens those women's cell, and he was shocked. It kept us in suspense for a long time...xD
I don't really watch movies, so....😂...we once watched Ben Hur a long time ago, but I don't really remember much about it except that it was interesting...😂
Oh my word, I love the chosen, is so good!!!
Also the Chosen? You guys watched that?
It’s to call to that audience, which makes sense. Sethers, Cars 3? 😂 Ben Hur was good. Have u guys heard of plugged in?
Yeah, but I mean in EVERY movie, whether the real story has it or not
Romantic parts aren’t necessarily bad, but they can be bad
I agree, Sethers! It seems like every movie has to have romantic parts in it. 🙄 Like even a movie about Jeremiah the prophet!! And he wasn't even supposed to get married! 🤔
You don’t watch movies that have this stuff in it Micah?
Micah, almost all movies now have sex in them and have bad words being said all the time and people killing people, one of these in in every movie I know that’s come out recently. Do you call this not evil?
Micah, a lot of the time, these movies can have subliminal messages in them. They help program ppl into doing things.
I don’t watch evil movies 😂
Well... be careful, just saying, you let the devil come in when you watch those evil movies
I like some movies from Hollywood.
You don’t want to believe the truth🤦♂️
Well... he hasn’t really...
Oh my word! you are so right! China is literally taking over America through Hollywood☹️the Soviet Union leader a while ago said he could rule the world if he had control of Hollywood
Henry, 😂 about your first comment...but, yeah, they want to take over the education--and every part of society, for that matter, like Vera said--so that they can bring up a new generation that is brainwashed.
Yes, they've infiltrated almost every part of our society.
Look up on how the Chinese government has infiltrated many schools
No, they wouldn’t want to loose their Chinese exchange students…
That is just so terrible. 😞
that’s just messed up.... 😔
Do you have to learn about this for school?
Henry, I was JUST thinking about that Bible thing this morning! I've also seen that one about John 8. 😔 It is blasphemous.😱 Terrible, terrible, terrible.
They also add this: “But if the law could only be executed by men without blemish, the law would be dead.”
In John 8 of the CCP Bible, Jesus says “I too am a sinner” and stones the adulteress after the crowd left when he said to let the one without sin to throw the first stone. 😔
Most Christians in China go to underground churches because most of the actual churches are regulated by the government. Chinese age 18 and up are only allowed to join official churches registered with the government. The government is even rewriting the Bible to “reflect socialist values.”
Bible Memorizer, he didn't say that China's leader is the antichrist. 😃 We don't believe he is. What he was saying is that that is antichrist (Micah makes a big deal about this spelling 🙄😂--anti christ) for the churches to have to put up a picture of the the Chinese leaders in their buildings.
and Roger I would not say he's the antichrist.
Henry, so bad! Like Micah said, he needs Jesus
Yeah, I agree we are all sinful, but this man is absolutely evil
Don’t say he is horrible. We are all horrible by nature! With Jesus only can we change. Pray 😔 🙏
Yeah. It's totally antichrist.
Yes, churches are required to have a picture of him or Mao instead of Jesus
Wow, that’s really bad! the leader of China is horrible
Many parents also killed their baby if it was a girl because of the one child policy and how Chinese culture value the family name, which is only passed down by sons. I remember reading about how there are 35 million more single men than women because of this. 🙁
It went to a two child policy, and now it’s a three child policy because of population crisis from the one child
Yes, I've heard of that, and it's so terrible!! Do they still have that "one child" policy?
Yeah, Henry, it's really terrible and it's all apart of their depopulation agenda. 🙁
In China they have forced abortions. 🙁
I also think adoption is definitely better than abortion. But, Sethers, you're right, it's extremely expensive!
Yeah, we aren’t saying adoption is not an option, we are saying that abortion is bad and that it should be stopped, and that is a good way to do it except for this, the fines they make you pay to adopt is like 20,000 dollars
I mean if you are that extreme just let them be adopted! Though the best option is keeping them for the mother’s and babies sake. But adoption is WAAAY better then killing them!
Yes, Bible Memorizer! And sometimes they do it because it's a boy, and they wanted a girl, or vice versa. 🙁
I think most everybody knows that the baby is still a person, they just don't want to believe it. And sometimes they do it just because they don't want a child.😔
ok jumping back to abortion.😂
They absolutely do. But whatever...I just had to give those or else, every time I read those, I'll be saying, "I wish I had given those verses." 😂
They do, but whatever. 🤦♂️
Those verses have nothing to do with losing your salvation but whatever, we ended the debate a while ago
"See that what you have heard from the beginning REMAINS in you. IF it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what He promised us--even eternal life." (1 John 2:24-25) There's that 'remain' and that 'if', again, in the context of eternal life.
"By this gospel you are saved, IF you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain." (1 Cor 15:2)
I don't know how you could possibly interpret them. 🤷 You don't have to respond if you don't want, but I'm going to givea few more verses for the record. 😉
Then how do you interpret them, Sethers? 🤷♂️ I cannot understand how you think they could mean anything but what they say. 🤦♂️ You just say that you think the verses mean something else, but you don't say. And you've only given us ONE VERSE in the entire debate. We've given you many, and you can't seem to explain them. I don't mean to sound upset, just a little bit puzzled. 🤔🙂
Ik Vera, I’m not just taking 1 verse out of the Bible. 🤦♂️I’m not going to answer you about those verses because you know I disagree with you, you interpret it differently then me
And another one, "Truly, truly, I say to you, IF anyone keeps My word he will never see death." (Joh 8:51; emphasis added)
We must obey in order to have eternal life.
I will give you another verse that gives more depth to the verse you gave. "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life." - John 3:36a
Sethers, I'm just giving you Scriptures. 🙂 I know the Bible does not contradict itself. And you cannot just take one verse and throw out the other ones that you don't like. You have to take the whole Bible.
John 10:27-28 specifically says ETERNAL LIFE, yours doesn’t
You guys are trying to trap me in my words, why are you trying to do that? The verse says what it says Vera, either the Bible contradicts itself or you are wrong because John 10:27-28 says everything. “My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me; And I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”
What would you say about these? I honestly want to know. 🙂
These are about backsliding after being a true Christian. Hebrews 3:12-14: "See to it, BROTHERS, that none of YOU has a sinful, unbelieving heart that TURNS AWAY from the living God.But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.We have come to share in Christ IF we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." (emphasis added)
Sethers, sorry to bring this up again, but I just couldn't help but show you these verses we found and see what you say about them. If I don't, I'll be chiding myself for it. 😅
Ok, Micah, we've heard that a few times...🙄 I think this debate is over...😂
Maybe, but I do think that before they make it illegal they do need to change a few things and not just straight up make it illegal.
I agree! If it's made illegal, women won't just be able to go get an abortion whenever they feel like it. Then they might search for another way and be more open to ppl's help. And they might run to Jesus.
Nadia and Sethers, I agree with you. Murder is wrong, no matter which way you slice it. And I don't think it should be made legal. Period.
They will still kill babies either way, they have been blinded to the truth
But more people will die if they make abortion illegal, then if it were legal! I am all for it being made illegal, but not immediately!
I see what you are saying. But as a Christian, I will not stand to legalize murder. That's just me.
Exactly! That is because of abortion clinics Sethers! It would rise if they were illegal because they would either do it themselves or have untrained people do it for them in other countries (or the USA)
Yes, but that is rare. look up the rate of moms dying to babies
Your right Nadia! Every life matters, including the life’s of the mothers. That’s why it’s more dangerous to get rid of abortion clinics immediately. Then both the child AND the mother could both die!
Yes, it's very upsetting. A lot of ppl have very little regard for human life these days. 😔
I agree. It makes me angry, too. 😑
Abortion makes me so angry....
....that's a "good" idea Micah, but people won't work that way :/ Some people might not do it just bc they can now, but other won't....and every life matters.
... oh, wait, I thought you were saying the crisis pregnancy centers wouldn't help...🙄😶
I think some would be very grateful. I heard a story about a young lady that was going to get an abortion, but before she did, she and her boyfriend went to a crisis pregnancy center. When they saw and heard the heartbeat of the baby on the ultrasound, they started crying. That totally changed their perspective on the whole thing and they decided not to go through with the abortion.
I don’t think they would want our help to be honest
Yah, I do think it should EVENTUALLY be made illegal, but people need to be educated and know the dangers of doing it themselves. Also the alternative (adoption) needs to be more available. Once these things are fixed I think it should be made illegal, but right now, I do not think it would be safe or productive.
Yes! I know! But if some women knew that the baby can feel pain and it has a heartbeat, they may decide not to get an abortion.
Yeah, people are so corrupt🤦♂️they would still have abortions even if it was made illegal
True, I wish it would work, but I am not sure it would.
So, I get what you are trying to say, Micah. But, like Sethers said, would we make murder legal just bc ppl would still do it even if it were illegal? I think the best solution to the problem you mentioned is to have those places (I think they’re called Crisis Pregnancy Centers) all around the country everywhere where there would normally be an abortion clinic, so that women who would otherwise get abortions, can go to those places and receive help. That would be a better alternative to making abortion legal, I think.
Yeah, before they had abortion clinics, women used to get it done by untrained people, people in other countries, or by themselves! It’s terrible! Now see, if abortion is made illegal, it will still be done! And without trained professionals, the women could die! I think abortion is very wrong, but the way to stop it isn’t making it illegal! it is encouraging the alternative and discouraging abortion.
Well, he thinks that it's wrong, but he thinks it should be legal so that women don't go to extremes to have one.
what Micah doesn't think abortion is wrong???
Ok, Nadia, get ready! We're about to have a debate with Micah about abortion, over here...I think. 🤔😀
Nadia, I made you an admin on here. 😉
No. Just thought that sense I made u admin, it would be fair 😂 if i see anything or get any ideas, I will let you know then fix it if needed.
So, Micah. You gonna take advantage of your newly gained power? 😆 (you don't have to, I was just wondering) 😅
So, I don't think you'll be able to see your "special title" on the app, so I'll just tell you what it is....you're "second-in-command". 😂😂 That's what I put below your name, if you see it on the website and not on the app. 😜
K. You're an admin. 😊 Check out your new title. (You might not be able to see it on the phone, tho 🙄)
Oh, boy. 🙄 I guess so. 😂 But, like you said to me, don't do anything too drastic. 😄
Can you make me Admin Roger?
You're welcome! 😃 Oh, wow! 😅 A lot of essays! Hope you do well! 😄
Thanks for taking the time to explain 😊 I’m going to look more into to this after the essay, which is due Friday, oh and another essay for the final tomorrow. 😅
Btw, you might want to start from the bottom up. Or else it might not make much sense if they're read out of order. 😅
And we cannot forget that God has given man a free will. He did not create a bunch of robots that do exactly what has been programmed into them. The eternal security doctrine of "once saved always saved" is a doctrine of demons, and is not found in the Bible. We can drift away and shrink back. The partakers of the Holy Spirit can and sometimes do fall away beyond repentance. The Father does remove branches from the vine. This means we must put our faith in Jesus, we must make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10), we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12) We need to maintain our close relationship with the Lord on a daily basis, trusting Him, abiding in Him and bearing fruit for His glory. We need to completely and continually trust Him to keep us to the end, and to make us stand before God blameless.
Secondly, as far as election and predestination go: It’s important to realize that election is based on God’s gracious choice. (Rom 11:5-7) The elect were known beforehand and destined beforehand, which is called predestination. (Rom 8:29-30) God’s purpose in choosing the elect was that they go and bear fruit that would remain, that the Father would give them whatever they ask in Jesus’ Name, that the elect be conformed to the image of His Son, and to make his glory known upon the vessels of His mercy. Also, God does not want any to perish. Jesus is the Savior to all who believe, and the gospel is for everyone who will listen. But while many are called, few are chosen. (Mat 22:14)
Now, the passages mentioned in Scripture about falling away (including 2 Pet. 2:20-22) are not just talking about ppl who were never really saved in the first place. For example, in 1 Tim 1:18b-19, Paul speaks of those who “shipwrecked their faith.” “…so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.” You cannot shipwreck a ship that you do not have, and you cannot shipwreck a faith that you never had. That’s just one example.
Ok, Henry, so first of all, it's good that you’re testing both sides of the debate. It's important to look at these things for yourself in the Bible and pray about them. In the book of Acts, it talks about how the Bereans searched the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was really true. (Acts 17:11) We need to make sure our beliefs and doctrines line up with the Bible.
Henry, I'm glad to hear that you don't believe in eternal security. 😀 Roger and I don't want you to just believe something just bc we or someone else said it. It's important that everyone bases his beliefs on the Bible. So that's what we're trying to help you do. You're questions and comments are still welcome throughout this and other debates. And we'll be glad to answer them for you. 😊
Yeah, I know. 😊 Just wanted to make sure you didn't start believing in it, bc of what Sethers is saying. This will just give you some Scriptural backing, to refute it, if you ever need to. 😉
Thanks. ☺️ I didn’t really believe in it, it was just something I heard that came to mind discussing OSAS
I think you'll find these very helpful. 😃 Eternal security is a false gospel, and many ppl are deceived by it. So I really wouldn't want to see you go down that path, cuz I care about you. 🙂
https://tinyurl.com/ddtauv9s
Ok, Henry, here are the articles: https://tinyurl.com/7ay4v7b4
Yep. I guess not. Bc for a min there, I was thinking you had switched sides right in the middle of the debate. 😂
Ok, so I’m not your target😂
Micah, I never said contemporary Christian music is wrong. What's wrong is the "Christian" RRR. So, you probably misunderstood me.
or at least I got that impression
They don’t like ‘contemporary’ either
Not that stuff, I wouldn’t go that far. I want to be able to hear the words being said
Oh, I see. I don’t listen to that stuff, just some contemporary Christian music
It's the abbreviation we were using for rap, rock, and reggae.
But, really, tho, we need to be done with this, cuz I can see I'm not going to convince either of you. Micah, if you want to listen to that kind of music, then that's your choice. I can't twist your arm. But you will have to give an account before God someday of your decisions.
Sethers, please stop bringing up the drums. 🤦♂️ I'm not saying that drums in and of themselves are bad. I'm saying that RRR is bad! 🤦♂️🤦♂️ That music is not pleasing to Gd, bc it's worldly. It sounds just like worldly music, aside from the lyrics!
Nadia, how do you know that doesn’t please the Lord? psalms 150 talks about everything giving praise to God
And that "Christian" music is not pleasing to the Lord.
We celebrate the birth of Christ on "Christmas" we DO NOT celebrate Santa Clause and magic like the world does tho...we do celebrate Ressurection Sunday, but we don't celebrate the ester eggs stuff everyone does xD And yeah the dates of the Ressurection are a little off but we still celebrate it on Sunday xD
Because he died Wednesday night
Technically Roger Jesus rose Saturday night.
But it’s not. Is it worldly to give glory to God, share the salvation story, and give your testimony?
@Micah, we've already told you how the "Christian" RRR is sinful! It's bc it's worldly! 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
We DEFINITELY believe in Jesus resurrection, but we don't celebrate EASTER, we celebrate resurrection Sunday.
Yes, the resurrection of Christ, wbu Micah?
If anything, the iPhone has way more bad stuff then music
How is Christian music sinful?
Micah, we already told you, we don't celebrate Christmas, remember? 😄
🤦♀️ No, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy those things. Most of those things don't have anything inherently sinful about them. What we are talking about is the worldly and sinful way the world does things.
Verses? about rock? huh? it’s not in the Bible! if you don’t want to conform to the pattern of this world, get rid of phones, devices, cars, Easter, Christmas, pizza! These things were created by people in this world! Does that mean we can’t enjoy them?
Micah, plz give me ONE VERSE that says that RRR is ok, and that we need that kind of music to reach ppl.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️The sound of the music DOES matter, Micah. It is the pattern of the music, you could say, and the Bible says NOT TO BE CONFORMED TO THE PATTERN OF THIS WORLD! So, not just the lyrics, but the sound as well. And the sound can effect someone who's listening to it. Also, "Rock music and subliminal music is meant to operate on stimuli that exist below the threshold of the conscious mind. Its goal is to awaken the energy center (in the brain) and to expand mental awareness. Scientific instruments have proved it reaches its goal. Music is more powerful than drugs."--Gene Moody.
But there is no difference between Christian hip-hop and Christian hymns, except the sound of the music! there is nothing in the sound of the music that is going to turn someone away from Jesus! You could put the same lyrics in both and the difference is one is more catchy and gets out to more people!
I agree Micah, hillsong did not get bad because of the drums, it was because they went away from the truth
Micah, the plain truth is that the devil can also create music. He was actually a musician in Heaven before he fell. (Eze 28:13b) Anything that God has, the devil wants to make a counterfeit of it. And he knows full well how to deceive the saints. How perfect would it be for the devil to make music that has just enough Christian sound to it, but it has that 15% that is perverted? Remember, when the devil lies, he always has mostly truth mixed in. And I don't get your point about Christmas, bc many ppl who are not Christians celebrate Christmas. And I'm NOT misinformed. The Holy Spirit inside of me can show me what music is holy and what music is unholy. And I agree with Roger.
Micah, there a lot of other things wrong with Hillsong, besides what you mentioned. And I never said it was bc of the drums. This is an article that explains what is wrong with Hillsong: https://tinyurl.com/9h5sk5h9 Some of the things are occult connections, love of money, allowing homosexuality in the church, and many other things. And you're totally right about focusing on what God thinks! He thinks that RRR music, even "Christian" RRR, is detestable and worldly! You can see why, bc of the verses we sent. I don't care of it has good, Christian lyrics. The style of the music is absolutely conforming to the pattern of this world! Which it shouldn't be and it's wrong! (Rom 12:2)
Hillsong is bad, but not because they incorporated drums xD, it is because they cared more about what the world thought of them then God. We should focus on what God thinks, and there is nothing wrong with praising God through music. Christian music is super set apart! If you listen to regular RRR its not even music!!! Its just a bunch of swear words lumped together to form an unholy piece of junk! That is the opposite of what the song I showed you was! That song was the story of salvation! How Jesus saves! If you say that is wrong, then you are misinformed.
Ok, so if you would have listened to the song, and understood what they are saying, you would have understood that they were praising God. You say that because the "original" version of RRR was bad then the Christian version is? God made music! Music + Christian = praising God! How can you people say this then go celebrate Christmas! That is hypocritical!
Oh, I know! So horrible! 😑
They believe that the Muslims and the Christians go to the same God
They let one thing come in their church and then they just keep going and before you know it, they are a concert not a church
Yeah! You've also heard of the corruption in Hillsong, Sethers?
Our church’s in the US and watered down because of that, I think church’s should have drums but I think they are smart for not having them because they can lead to a lot of bad stuff, look at hilsong
Nadia, correct! they aren’t bad, but they can be used for bad stuff
Yes, Agent, Vera is right on! 😉
The quotes do apply. Please read them again, if you didn't get it. And the verses did apply. Please give me verses that say that we need to become like the world in order to win them over. I thought that the FATHER is the one who draws ppl to Jesus (Jh 6:44), not the other way around. If they aren't going to come into the kingdom on GOD'S terms, they can't be saved.
Okay? You didn’t really give me an answer to my question.... You just gave me a bunch of verses that said to set yourself apart from the world and a few quotes that don’t really apply to Christian RRR?
"New Age Children's music is to incite rebellion and self elevation. Rock music leads young people into sexual perversions and violence."
Also, "Rock music and subliminal music is meant to operate on stimuli that exist below the threshold of the conscious mind. Its goal is to awaken the energy center (in the brain) and to expand mental awareness. Scientific instruments have proved it reaches its goal. Music is more powerful than drugs."--Gene Moody
Agent, (Roger is busy rn, so I'm going to answer. He'll probably answer later, tho.) "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'" (1Pe 1:14-16)
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, ‘He is the One who catches the wise in their craftiness.’” (1 Cor 3:19)
"...make a distinction between the holy and the profane, and between the unclean and the clean." (Lev 10:10b)
"’Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘And do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you. And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,’ Says the Lord Almighty. Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2Co 6:17-18 - 7:1)
"What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight." (Luk 16:15)
okay, so how does RRR not line up with the Bible, God and His ways?
😂Agent, that's fine. Um...worldly is anything that does not line up with the Bible, God, and His Ways. And it's also whatever the world practices and the way they act.
I came to join the discussion but.... I’ve had this debate before so I know I get too worked up about people thinking certain music is bad when it’s helped so many people find the Lord and helped the music artist with his relationship with God too! I get that we should put away worldly stuff from us but how exactly are you going to define worldly? How do you decide that? Anyways, I was writing out a very long post but decided that I was getting too worked up and it didn’t make that much sense so I’m not posting it....
Me, too! Nadia, talk about it! Church services these days are like rock concerts and night clubs!!! 🤦♀️ The ppl have no reverence for God anymore!
Yes, I totally agree with you both!
Drums or electric guitars are NOT bad. And CAN be used in the right way. And make some nice music, but when it's too much, its ungodly ;/
Yes! It's so frustrating 😑😐 We went to every church in our area and around (it took us 2 years) and there was only ONE church that didn't look like a night club...
Psalm 150 talks about praising God with everything (including drums)
I would agree with both of you, Micah and Roger. Here’s why, I do not think having drums in music is bad, I think that there could be some bad that could come from it like you get used to the worldly music but I personally listen to music with drums so..
Yeah, Nadia! Many churches have conformed to the world instead of the other way around! 🤦♂️
the modern church has taken the world's style of things and made a "Christian" version of it.
I agree with Roger and Vera
Micah, that music is absolutely worldly and unholy! Micah, did you even see the verses I sent?? It says, DO NOT BE CONFORMED TO THE PATTERN OF THE WORLD! That song is totally the pattern of the world, I don't care about the lyrics! It's not acceptable to God at all!
Tbh, I could hardly understand what the rapper was saying. Maybe most of the lyrics were fine, but the thing is, it's not holy. It's totally worldly. Do you honestly think God has that music in Heaven? Absolutely not! I don't feel right listening to that.
Did you even listen to the lyrics 🤦♂️
Micah, I watched the whole thing....I turned down the volume a few times. It's not holy. If you don't listen to it, and you just watch it, it looks just like the world. Do you see how that rapper is dressed? He looks just like the world. "What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight." (Luk 16:15)
Please focus on the lyrics, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1uqdX6wXY
It’s playing music, lots of drums, electric guitars, if it’s done to glorify God, then God is glorified!
Instrumental rock music is worldly?
Yes, and it is. I’m going to hive you a link. Please listen to the whole song.
Yes. That too, definitely, but of most importance, it needs to be holy.
Wait. So you can’t have instrumental rock music why?
Yes, as long as it's not rap, rock or reggae. But instrumental music is not what I'm talking about right now.
So it’s supposed to ‘sound’ holy? isn’t it supposed to have good content and bring others to God?
Please read everything I said and respond.
Ok... so is instrumental music ok for you?
God doesn't make accommodations for worldly people in Christianity. When we get saved, we start a new life, so the OLD IS GONE! THE NEW HAS COME! And it's not just that I don't like it, or that my parents don't, it's that GOD DOESN'T LIKE IT! It is detestable to him! (Lk. 16:15) And, yes, Micah, I have heard what Christian rap sounds like, and it doesn't sound holy AT ALL. We are supposed to be holy as God is holy! (1 Pet. 1:16)
Ok, so, Micah, first of all, rap, rock, and reggae (I'm just going to refer to them as RRR for now, ok?) are WORLDLY no matter if they are Christian or not. They are just plain wordily, and, like in the verse that Nadia gave, we ARE NOT TO BE CONFORMED THE PATTERN OF THIS WORLD. (Rom 12:2) The pattern! That shows that even if it's candy-coated as "Christian music" it has a worldly pattern, and God is NOT OK with that! And also, like in the other verse she gave, we are to COME OUT OF THE WORLD AND BE SEPERATE FROM IT! So, even if someone doesn't like the godly music, then they are still loving the world! (1 John 2:15)