he doesnt say when itll grow so it could grow anytime 🤔
If Pinocchio said, “My nose will grow.” What would his nose do?
I believe strongly that water isn’t wet, due to it being wet..
@Henry, the association with drugs and wild living certainly doesn’t help. But all music is fallen, being created by fallen man. I think it’s a 1 Corinthians 8 type issue, if your conscious allows be free, if not don’t listen to those styles.
Use your discernment and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit is the advice I'll give anyone who is on the fence about this 😉
Will, yes, interesting indeed! That that didn't change my mind, tho, bc I guess other factors and the whole outlook I have on things that are going on in this present age make it so that I am not able to listen to that stuff with a clear conscience.
A thought that came to mind is the association of RRR and drugs that might be a factor of why it sound unholy
Interesting read! I have to take music appreciation for a GE requirement, and it’s been interesting
Thoughts? I know it’s a lot 😬
I would also argue that CCM (contemporary Christian music) is very different from the world for 3 reasons, 1. The world hates CCM, and this includes CCM that includes RRR (which is not most CCM). The world associates CCM with music that sounds bad and is very unpopular in the world. 2. The Gospel always brings hate from the world, even the mere mention of Jesus’ name is hateful in the eyes of the world. 3. A Christian musician will use Christian record labels (as opposed to a secular record label which would not allow overt religious references in the music) which ensures the music will never reach popular success in the world. As a result of these three reasons, CCM is very unpopular in the world.
(the major and minor scales as well as stacks of thirds to create harmony (triads) evolved from the Catholic Church, they were used in English plain chants and popularized by the Catholic composer Palestrina and others before him. In other words, any genre using major and minor scales (which includes all Western genres of music) are direct descendants of Catholic music
If you really want music that sounds counter-cultural, try listening to atonal music like Arnold Schoenberg’s 6 pieces for piano, or anything by Anton Webern. That’s music that’s really unpopular and nothing like the world at all.
In otherwise, you taste of what sounds holy is actually a very recent development in the history of music, and only a fraction of what has been sung to our God since Adam.
5. Finally, I think it is worth noting that the hymns of today would have been scandalous in churches pre-1490s. Music theorists before that time has been furiously divided over whether to use a 7 in a basic V7 chord which is the building block of all music (including hymns) to this day. It even took a long time for the 12-notes we call the chromatic scale exist, some cultures have even more tones than are traditional 12
4. It is also worth noting that music in the time of Jesus would have sounded nothing like the hymns we have today. This is because the major and minor scales and chords did not even exist until centuries after His death. If study traditional Jewish music, around the time of David and after, records indicate the music was quite gregarious (read 2 Samuel 6:12-23 for David’s dancing)
Reggae originated in Jamaica, and has some origins in the Blues (another African-Americans folk genre).
Rap is basically poetry spoken in monotone often with a rhythmic and/or musical background - the origins are probably from African chants, though similar things exist in every culture.
Rock is a direct descendant of Jazz which is subsequently a descendant of Blues, Ragtime, and African-American Spirituals. Ragtime is partially a descendant of European Classical Music and African tribal music, while the Spiritual are more direct descendant from African tribal music. African tribal music is the primary source of rhythm and drums we see in todays music.
3. The argument has also been made that RRR sounds unholy. I think they are perceived this way because of a failure to understand where they came from
Essentially, folk tunes were the equivalent to RRR today, and Protestants used these tunes to differentiate themselves from the antiquated sounding chants used in the Catholic Church.
2. Many hymns are based on folk tunes that would have been popular at the time they were written. Thus, hymns would have sounded similar to the popular music of the time. Nowadays, RRR is more popular which gives hymns a more antiquated sound that can be associated with sounding “holier” or different from our current world.
1. Contemporary Christian music is not based in rock music (at least most of the popular stuff isn’t), it is based in country music. That’s why some Contemporary Christian musicians started in Nashville, which is the cultural center for country music. The two genres also share nearly identical instrumentation, chord structures, and vocal style
I was reading your arguments about RRR, and since I’m a musician and have studied music history extensively I thought I’d offer a few extra thoughts.
(Btw, I'm able to leave this group even tho I'm admin, bc on a PC, you can go in and un-admin yourself so that you can leave. 😏 It's not possible to do it on a phone)
Due to the inactivity of this group, I'm probably gonna exit left stage 😂 Besides, I don't know if there will ever be another overflow debate, since the main debate group hardly has any debates on it anyway 😅 Any of you can feel free to leave if you'd like.
"Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved..." (Col. 3:1) Notice how it says DEARLY loved, and this is about God's chosen ppl.
This one especially explains it: "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him." (1 Jn. 3:1)
Here are some verses that show how God loves His children in a special way. "Because you are precious in my eyes, and honored, and I love you, I give men in return for you, peoples in exchange for your life." (Is. 43:4) “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his TREASURED possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." (Deut 7:6)
Do you have any verses to show that He loves people differently?
What about like with the Egyptians and Israelites? Would you say that God loved them both the same, since He was willing to give grace to both? But it was because the Israelites believed and obeyed Him that His relationship was different with them and He favored them? Or no?
Yeah, I’m with Roger and Vera on this one. Everyone is special and God has a special love for each I individual person. It’s not like He loves certain people MORE just…. different
... Roger, I was thinking the SAME thing about the cookie-cutter love 😂 And I agree with you
Well, just bc God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, doesn't necessarily mean that His love for each individual is the same exact kind of love. I mean, it's just not the way God is to just have this "cookie-cutter" love for every single person. Just like a parent loves all their children dearly, but they have a special/individual love for each one. I believe it's the same way with God and His children, too. His love for each person is unique.
I'm back. Szia, szia, szia!! Lol Yeah Roger, since we proved that God IS love itself we can go to the verse that says "I am the same yesterday today and forever". If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and God is love, then His love is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Why do you think He has a special kind of love?
I kinda agree with Vera. Of course, God loves everyone, saved or unsaved. But there's that special kind of love that He has for His children. Now, in terms of His love among individual believers, I think that the more one draws closer to the Lord and loves him more, they will feel His love to a greater degree. Maybe not that God loves them more if they love HIM more... that's probably not the case. But, I think they will definitely FEEL and experience His love more, as they draw closer to Him. That may explain why John was called (or referred to himself as) the disciple Jesus loved.
Ok, Alice, see ya, then! Bye! Szia, szia, szia! (As the Hungarians said, even tho it means 'hello, hello, hello' 😆.)
That is a pretty good guess, and it could be true, however, and my family and I had this whole discussion a few weeks ago, why was John called "the disciple Jesus loved"? (Interesting fact, John wrote a lot about love.) He was the one who laid his head on the bosom of Jesus.
I will be back in 10 days, after vacation
Same here, I can't wait to hear your opinions!
Originally I agreed with you Vera, but at the beginning we proved that God IS love. There is this verse, "He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever". And if God is love then His love is the same yesterday today and forever.
I think that God loves everyone the same but His relationship is different. It's like with parents, they have loved their kids since before they were born. I mean God created very single human. He loves ever single person. But He has this pride and deep relationship with those that come to Him and want to grow in Him.
This is a very interesting topic, and I am open to other opinions on this. 😊 As for verses to back up my theory, I'll probably delve more into that tomorrow, cause I need to go to sleep now 😴
I actually don't agree that God loves everyone exactly the same. I believe, though I could be wrong, that He has a special love for His children in general (of course, He still greatly loves sinners), and even for His children, each one is loved with a special love only for him.
(Although I do agree with you just saying lol)
And why would you say that?
God loves everyone the same.
So we have proven that God loves and is love. Okay so now to the question. Do you believe that God loves everyone to the same degree. Christians and non Christians? ( I will give my thoughts after)
Absolutely! "God is love." 1 Jn 4:16a 😄
So the biblical definition of love is, "Love is patient, love is kind, love does not envy or boast..." God demonstrates all of these characteristics. Since God is perfect, He demonstrates all of these characteristics perfectly. Meaning that God demonstrates love perfectly. Thus we could say that God is love. Do you agree?
Sure, Alice! 😁 Yes, God does demonstrate His love. "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) 😉
Can we agree that God demonstrates love?
Hey guys, I am working on gathering thoughts on a topic in order to write an essay. So I would like to start a small debate 😁
Hey 😂 It's normal for this group to be inactive for long periods of time, bc it's not everyday that we have an extra debate going on. 😅 Ya know? This is just a backup/overflow group.
Yes. We r forcing you to watch it 🗡
Hmm... is it a city ordinance or something? 🤣
Have u watched it yet Roger?
Oh, hi, BM. As Sethers was saying, it's really not super hard 😂
Yeah, it’s not super hard
Oh I just use the app on an android to cast to my tv or steam link to cast from my computer
Yah but it works if you have a tv. It works with Rome and fire stick too. Do you have anything hooked up to your tv?
Don’t you need appletv to airplay?
... you can airplay it onto a bigger screen like your tv. It’s insanely easy.
Yeah, though I find it more enjoyable on a bigger screen
I have the Chosen app and it’s really good, that’s the best way to go is to get the app
I love it so much😍it’s made the Bible come alive for me
It is. I LOVE how it shows Jesus as fully human, his having a sense of humor, and Him having empathy towards others. 👍
Hmm...sounds interesting! 😀
Its also free to watch on vidangel or youtube. 😃
@Vera interesting! 😂 @ Roger It’s based on the Gospels, but unlike all the other movie depictions, it’s a tv series and also shows Jesus’s human side.
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