wow you sound busy Marilyn! have fun on your trip!!
Sabbath certainly is a blessing in the mission field. I plan to share a Bible message today called โThe Holy Spirit and Marriage.โ The key verse is Luke 4:1-4. Part of the message will be about the difference between Christian marriage and Muslim marriage. They are very different
We got our furness repaired today to the tune of $160. I think our friend (we have known him for years) gave us a break. That was nice! And a good thing because our main car broke down today; something we cannot afford to repair. So we have it (a Buick sedan), a Ford SUV that cannot go over 45 mph (a major timing issue), and a gas-guzzling 1-ton duelly GM truck. Vehicles can really be a burden... Anyway, I look at this situation more as an opportunity to pray. And the devil is working overtime trying to discourage us, so we must be doing something right. Ha! Well, happy Sabbath! God bless you and yours!
Hi all! I hope everyone is having a good day! It is the Preparation Day for the Sabbath. It is a busy one for me (and Sunday and Monday) because I still need to prepare food and a salad (chili for my hubby and son), start some kind of seed plan for our garden (cannot wait on that as the clock is ticking), write if and when I get the chance, and prepare plant care directions for my husband while I am gone for a week long trip (which I will also have to pack for). Tomorrow (the Sabbath) we are going to a nearby health seminar for the day. I so much prefer being busy than having nothing to do and no goal in sight! :^)
and Latte and Angel, I think if you two sweet young ladies were living in a non-Christian country, you would have dear girlfriends that were Hindu or Buddhist or Muslim. Religion would not hurt your friendship. But when you talk about Jesus the lower quality of friends would become less interested in friendship
Now Janna, let me affirm a couple things you said: 1) yes, Jesus fulfilled the the ritual law and abolished that law at His Cross. 2) yes, Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Where we see differently is we see baptism as the ritual commemorating the death and resurrection. And we see the Ten Commandments as the Royal Law by which men are judged (James 1:8-12). And in Romans 7 the parable of the marriage to Jesus shows that we cannot be unconverted and saved at the same time. The old life must die to make room for Jesus.
hi Janna! I love the kind a caring way that you asked that question. So let me try to answer with the same kind spirit: Romans 2:12-14 and 3:31 come earlier in the book and both teach faithful people are law keepers. And Romans 6 shows that faithful people have victory over sin (which is law breaking). And Romans 7:12,14 and 8:4-7 indicate that those following the Spirit are law keepers. These five passages are what we call context of Romans 7:1-6. Next we look at the passage itself. In this passage my old self, the unconverted me, is illustrated as being married to me. The โlawโ permits no divorce. But when my old self dies, the law permits me to marry a better spouse: Jesus, and that frees me from condemnation for my old sins (not from obligation to obey the Ten Commandments)
@Angel: yup totally agree
Hello! I was reading today and was curious: How do SDAs interpret Romans 7:1-6? I believe that what this is referring to is the Law of Moses, which points to Jesus and his death and resurrection. When Jesus rose again, he fulfilled the Law of Moses and the Sabbath, and therefore we worship on the day of his resurrection. Again, Iโm not trying to stir up a huge argument, but I would like to know what the SDAs think about that.
Angel, youth are so precious that way. They love freely without accepting the social barriers of their groups. That is great.
@ Noah What's a Brethren assembly?
Baptist/Gospel. My dad grew up in a Brethren Assembly.
@Bengali hmm I didn't know that about Presbyterians and Pentecostals but i don't care what type of Christian latte is she's still my friend ๐๐ฝ๐
hi Jason. Most adult Christians seem to care about such things in the USA and less so in countries where there are few believers
am glad to get to know you all a little better. In the theological world Presbyterians and Pentecostals agree on very little. But among homeschooling youth, none of that seems to create friction
Im Presbyterian (in the OPC to be exact)
hi Jason. I appreciate that you take the name Christian. I do also. And I am also SDA.
What denominations are you all?
๐บ Good morning friends. Happy Sabbath! I hope you have a lovely and restful day. ๐๐โค
God demonstrated the fundamental choice between eternal life and eternal death through His command about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As stated in Genesis 2:16-17, humans were free to eat from every tree, but eating from the tree of knowledge would result in death.
True freedom -- eternal life -- exists only within God's established boundaries.
Life can only be sustained through obedience to God's law and recognizing Him as both Judge and Creator. This is evidenced by how God showed Adam the right food choices and provided for his continued existence.
All actions outside these boundaries of freedom would lead to the same outcome...death.
There is no freedom or continued existence in death.
now I spent 45 minutes typing with my two thumbs. so please see www.truthaboutdeath.com for more. Have a blessed day
Now for my own, see John 11 where a real Lazerus dies. Jesus calls death a sleep (John 11:11) and then clarifies (11:14). And Martha knows Jesusโs teaching that he brother will โrise again in the resurrection of the last day.โ (John 11:24). This matches Paul in 1 Thes 4:13-17 where the righteous dead are raised at the Coming of Jesus. Job says that at the last day he will see his redeemer with his own eyes in his own flesh. Job 19:25-27. Job 14 says the same that a man dies and rises not again until the โheavens are no more.โ (14:12). Solomon says โThe living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anythingโ Ecc 9:5.
Now regarding parables, you are right that most are told as realistic stories. In Luke 16 there are several elements to show that this is a popular meme adapted by Jesus to show the vanity of wealth. Notice how Lazerus is in the lap of Abraham and how the gulf is small enough for talking but too large to cross (as if the righteous are in a gallery over hell just a few meters away). This depiction was common in Jesusโs time and he used it to show that there is no probation after death and that scripture is all that men need to take warning.
and regarding the smoke going up for ages and ages in Revelation 14:9-11, compare this to Isaiah 34:8-10 โFor it is the day of the Lordโs vengeanceโฆits streams turned to pitch, its dust to brimstone, its land shall become burning pitch, it shall not be quenched night or day, its smoke shall ascend for ever; from generation to generation it shall be waste; no one will pass through for ever and ever. But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it. The owl and the raven shall dwell in it.โ So the rising smoke shows the memory of the judgment but not its eternal continuance.
Now regarding Matthew 25, notice that no immortality is granted to the wicked. Their punishment is eternal (because they never exist again) and the fire is eternal (because it is Godโs presence). Compare to the unquenchable fire of Jeremiah 17:27. Now look at the โeverlasting burningsโ of Isaiah 33:14-15 and notice that only righteous persons can survive them. Our God is a โconsuming fireโ in Hebrews 12:28.
Regarding what Jude wrote of Sodom, see the parallel in 2 Peter 2 where you find โturning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making an example for those who afterward would live ungodly.โ 2 Peter 2:6. They are examples for lost people who God will โreserve for punishment for the Day of Judgement.โ 2 Peter 2:9.
Jason, I love you. I think it is great that a young man is making himself familiar with Scripture. So let me take a few more minutes with the verses you quote and then share a few others:
This a a parable but it is told as though it is a true story. That was how Jesus told parables in a way that the ordinary people would understand. (ex: Parable of the sower) If hell did not exist why would Jesus tell such a literal parable about it?
22 โThe time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abrahamโs side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, โFather Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.โ
25 โBut Abraham replied, โSon, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.โ
27 โHe answered, โThen I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.โ
29 โAbraham replied, โThey have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.โ
30 โโNo, father Abraham,โ he said, โbut if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent. 31 He said to him, โIf they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.โ
And how about the rich man and Lazuras
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, โIf anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of Godโs wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up FOREVER AND EVER, AND THEY HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.โ (Revelation 14:9-11)
โWhen the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then he will say to those on his left, โDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. And these will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into eternal life.โ (Matthew 25:31-33,41, 46)
But how about these verses
I guess you could interpret some of those verses that way but in the instance of Sodom and Gomorrah Jude is not talking about only the fire that consumed the cities but where the people in the cities went. And yes In Matthew 13:49-50 it is talking about the end of time. But how could people be judged at the end of time if they were already destroyed and blotted out of existence?
My brother Jason! thank you for sharing so much scripture!! Praise God. Now I only have five minutes now to respond so more many hours from now. First letโs look at the scripture you quoted. In Matt 10:28, is the soul destroyed or eternally preserved? in Rev 21:8 is the lake of fire the cause of โdeathโ or endless pain? And in Rev 20:11-15, see verse 9 where the wicked are โdevoured.โ In Matt 13:49-50, do people enter the lake of fire at death or at the end of time? In Isaiah 66 are they looking at disembodied spirits or dead bodies? Now pay special attention to Jude 1:7. Sodom is our model of eternal burning. and what do we learn from that model? it was burned up completely and permanently. it is not still burning. but it was burned by unquenchable fire. The verses that mention eternal fire should rather be translated โage abiding fire.โ It means โuntil it is finishedโ and not โfor eternity.โ My time is up, but helltruth.org has good info
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28
โBut as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.โ (Rev. 21:8)
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyoneโs name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-15)
โSo it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.โ (Matthew 13:49-50)
โAnd they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all fleshโ (Isaiah 66:24)
โwhen the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believedโ (2 Thess. 1:7-10)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.โ (Jude 1:7)
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, โIf anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of Godโs wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.โ (Revelation 14:9-11)
โWhen the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Then he will say to those on his left, โDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.โ (Matthew 25:31-33,41, 46)
Revelation 21:8: "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Deuteronomy 32:22: "For a fire is kindled in My anger, and shall burn to the lowest hell; it shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."
Proverbs 7:27: "Her house is the way to hell, descending to the chambers of death."
Proverbs 9:18: "But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of hell."
Isaiah 5:14: "Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it."
Also here are a bunch of other verses that talk about hell
Eternal Damnation. If it wasnt a thing then why would Jesus talk about it like its real. And how about the parable of the rich man and lazuras.
This is saying that the person will never be forgiven and is on their way to hell
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of ETERNAL DAMNATION: Mark 3:29 KJV
hi Jason! thank you for asking. When Noah built the ark he condemned the world. That doesnโt mean that he punished the world. But it means that by his living faith he showed how evil unbelief is. So when a person is destroyed, they are eternally condemned. Notice how the fist part of the verse reads โnever has foreignness.โ That blasphemy against the Spirit is refusing the urgings of the spirit until the voice of the Spirit becomes silent to the soul. It is the hopeless case
hi Jason, no. We believe that those who are lost, the great majority of people, will all be destroyed. They will be burned to ashes and will exist no more. The universalists believe that all will be saved.
so you believe in universalism?
hi Marilyn, agreed. Hi Jason, I suppose a few people in this group are SDA, but I donโt know that I know anyone here in real life. Most SDA are unfamiliar with Arminius-vs-Calvin. But our position is closer to Arminius. We teach that God loves all and seeks to save all by wooing them into loving trust. This is like Arminius. We teach that God is sovereign and choose kings and rulers as it pleases Him. This is like Calvin. We teach that God has, in His sovereignty granted probation to all mankind to let them show the working out of faith or unbelief. This is somewhat like Arminius. We teach that the lost will confess that they are the cause of their own damnation before they are destroyed. This is like the apostle Paul.
I just dropped by to say hello! I also wanted to comment on the dating question. I think it is a good idea to wait about dating until you have experienced a good personal relationship with God. When you know Him well, you will be more likely to choose a life companion who will honor Him, and make you happy. Amos 3:3 says, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
wait are yall sdas arminians?
Yeah those are good verses I was thinking of Deut. 31:6
hi Jason, where in the Bible did you find that idea? verses that come to my mind are 1 Cor 15:1-2; Rom 11:22; 2 Peter 2:20-22; Heb 10:35-39; Heb 10:26-27; 1 Tim 5:12
That once we are saved Christ will never let us go
Jason, Latte, KL, Angel, what are some ideas you have been gaining from the Bible this week?
it sounds like several of you have great parents. life for a teen without dating has so much less emotional drama as you can see from the lives of your cousins or church friends
BTW KL u know me I was a good friends of Emmas. Just diff name pls go to the third Truth BE Told if your confused
My mom won't let me date until I finish high school.
Can all of u pls pray for my dad he's have some trouble with some of the leaders in the church
Though I understand that your responses are very true and can happen in real life I am sure that does not apply my situation. Besides my parents are so for it. But thank you for the advice because I know yo meant it.๐๐
lol well thx but shes from my church and we've like known eachother since we were babies. And our parents are best friends so yeah.
Yh ig it just depends on what God has planned for ur life
hi Jason, at ages 10-14 that is a time when parents must be heavily involved. if she is substantially older, that might even be a crime on her part. Christening and Caleb have both given reasonable responses
Respect bro!!! gotta be careful if your gonna date in this age range people think its fun to lead someone on and (PLAY) them.
yes I did get it from AIO lol. But my gf is a steady and we've known each other forever. I mean 5 yrs with her and you get to know someone
@Jared Dewhite (btw, did you get that name from adventures in Odyssey?) How old are you? Because I know from firsthand experience that one of the biggest problems with dating someone when you're so young, is that people change so much over their teen years that they're hardly the same person, and it's unlikely that people will be compatible all the way through.
I started when I was ten and am with the same girl
hi Angel. thanks for sharing. I appreciate that you will not seek a boyfriend soon, and while 16-18 is a common time to start, I would suggest 20-23 better for happy marriages
@Bengali well idk maybe like 16โ ik i won't be dating anyone any time soon ๐
welcome, Jared. Feel more than free to answer any of the important questions Iโve asked in this thread. I would love to hear your thoughts
Iโm sorry, I was wondering if anyone knew where she went, not if she was going to answer the question
hi Latte. I didnโt remove Marilyn. I think she drops in once a week or so. but as she is married, the question isnโt for her so much
is Marilyn no longer in this group?
but I would say that I probably would not date someone right now
well in my opinion, most of society is dating to date, and I donโt want to be that person. so I donโt think I can say what age, it depends if I find someone.
How old do each of you think is an ideal age to start dating or courting or finding a life partner? Here in Bangladesh it happens at age 13-17 and often leads to abuse and horrible experiences for the bride.
I want to welcome our new members and especially Mel. Jesus is precious and people need to know.
My brother is better now! (he actually got better the night after I asked you guys too pray for him!)
theyโre doing well, thank you for praying ๐
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